Sperm DNA fragmentation test & treatment?

Discussion in 'In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)' started by sunrisec, Jul 31, 2012.

  1.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Hi Ladies,

    we have been ttc for 2.5 years. 9 Failed IUI's and 3 IVF's. I am a slow responder and I finally had 2 eggs fertilized, grade 2. Today my 5 day transfer was cancelled due to them not getting to the stage they should be. I am devastated. My RE just called to say he wanted to perform some further testing in dh's sperm. Sperm DNA fragmentation test. He thinks this maybe a factor in this latest cancellation.

    Anyone ever had these tests done on their dh?
    If so, did it get treated?
    What did they treat it with?
    How long was treatment?
    Did you get have success eventually?


    Thanks,

    Alicia
  2.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    no one had this test or treatment?
  3.  
    lucyddr

    lucyddr New Member

    We did it and DH's fragmentation rate was over 90%. He has good testosterone levels and took tons of viatmins, didn't smoke/drink, etc. so no other treatments were available. We did 2 cycles with ICSI, which failed to change any outcomes. In the end, we were successful...but only because we chose to move to donor sperm.

    There is a process done at a few select labs called IMSI...which is basically highly selective ICSI. I think the verdict on its success is still somewhat up in the air.

    Since DH's morphology was always under 1% normal and total counts were always less than 7 million (sometimes less than 1 million), we figured it was unlikely for his sperm to make healthy blasts. On our donor egg cycle, 12 eggs were fertilized with his sperm...3 embryos Graded A at transfer failed and only 1 remaining embryo of 3 made it to a poor-looking blast. It just didn't seem possible for us and we wanted a baby as soon as possible, so we bailed and used donor sperm. We are now pregnant with twins!

    Best of luck moving forward! Several of us on the donor egg board (ironically enough) learned of this after we spend thousands on a donor egg cycle only to learn that the sperm were a HUGE part of the original problem! Thankfully, we suspected it early...tested...and chose to fertilize half of the donor's eggs with DH's sperm and the other half with DS.

    I hope you get far more responses...and hopefully with some who have had success with significant DNA fragmentation rates!
  4.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Thanks Lucy. Congrats on your twins. Dh will have the test performed next week. I am orating for good results. in the mean time we will go organic and pray for thes best. I am glad my re suggested this before we wasted money on another cycle. My ok'd eggs not need anymore drama.

    If you don't mind me asking When your twins are born will you test them to see if they belong to dh or you don't care?

    Alicia.
  5.  
    Nicki479

    Nicki479 New Member

    My clinic requires this test to qualify for the IVF packages. My DH's result was 29% which wasn't good enough to qualify for a package. This is our first IVF cycle, so I'm very anxious to see what happens. Doctors basically told us there isn't much you can do. However, I've read that extra Vits C and E can help b/c they are antioxidants. Also, there has been some research on frequent ejaculation helping. I read that men who ejaculated 7 days in a row and then waited 48 hours had better fragmentation results. Supposedly the fragmentation takes place in the final stages of sperm formation. Best of luck!!
  6.  
    HopefulNY

    HopefulNY New Member

    I don't have experience with sperm fragmentation, just wanted to say I'm so sorry your transfer was cancelled.
  7.  
    lucyddr

    lucyddr New Member

    No..."his" blast was pretty shrimpy and we feel fairly confident that it didn't develop (technically it stuck and made a sac, but no fetal pole). If you see our blog pic, it is obvious which one is his. We don't care to know for sure, as we wouldn't want our children to feel or be treated differently. We are just too happy to be pregnant!
  8.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Lucy that's good

    Hopeful. Thanks.

    Nicki this should be a standard test prior to fertility treatments.

    A part if me hopes this would explain why we can't get pregnant. I am a little in denial about my old eggs.

    Alicia.
  9.  
    babyhope2012

    babyhope2012 New Member

    Alicia,

    I am so very sorry your embryos did not make it to transfer. Do you know why you had to wait until day 5 transfer? My understanding is that you wait until day 5 if you have several embryos to chose from.

    I've been told that if DNA fragmentation is high, one can use PICSI (pre-selected ISCI). The sperm is picked not just based on morphology but also on its ability to bind to some acid. SIRM does this procedure.

    I hope your get your answers soon and will have your BFP! :grouphug:
  10.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Hi Babyhope,

    my original transfer was for day 3. I had a 2, 6 cell grade 2 embryo's but the Dr called and said they were going to do a day 5. I should have just pushed for a day 3. next time. I am @ SIRM so hopefully if that's a problem they can do that. We have our WTF appointment in 2 weeks but probably won't try again until October.

    Thanks,

    Alicia

  11.  
    houston

    houston New Member

    I am so sorry you didn't make it to transfer. I have not made it to transfer twice and it is a horrible feeling. The last time I did not make it to transfer I was cycling out of state, was told the transfer was off, flew back home, was told wait an immature egg fertilized, flew back for transfer, and then was told right before transfer that the embryo didn't develop. It was awful.

    I was told we could have the DNA fragmentation test done on my husband by Dr. Davis at Cornell. He said that there really isn't much to do if the test doesn't turn out well, so we opted not to do it. He said the test itself was expensive, although I have not checked into this. I think this may be part of our issue so I should probably look into this more.

    I agree with you that next time maybe you should opt for a day 3 transfer. I have had some doctors tell me that if the embryos are good, they would make it to day 5, however, those same docs insist on doing 3 day transfers with me saying the uterus is the best place for the embryos. Also, I spoke with one doctor who told me that statistically 5 day blast produce more boys and they know that should not be the case so there is a theory that the girl embryos while they may make it in your uterus would not make it in the lab.
  12.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Houston,

    it really sucks that on top of having to deal with DOR, high FSH, Low AMH we may have a severe male factor. I did some research and there are some encouraging studies out there. Antioxidants are supposed to help improve things. There was also another study where they found that they got better sperm if the male did not ejaculate. They pretty much went in and got it. We would use donor egg (sister) but not sure if dh will ever agree to donor sperm.

    Good luck to you. Are you happy @ Cornell?

    Alicia.
  13.  
    houston

    houston New Member

    Thank you. I was not pleased with Cornell. The first time I tried to cycle with them I was oversupressed. The next time I actually responded well for me and we were expecting at least 5 mature follicles. Really better than I have ever done. However, something went wrong at retrieval and I only had 3 total follicles retrieved (there should have been about 10 total). Only 2 were mature and did not fertilize. I was told they have no idea what happened and there were no notes as to why they only retrieved 3 total. So, I requested my money back for almost everything. They did give a lot of it back to me.

    The main problem I had with Cornell is I felt like just a number, way more so than my experience with CCRM. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone back to CCRM. I really liked Dr. Surrey. I just thought well, last 2 times with CCRM did not work (1 was ectopic), so I wanted a change. I regret that now. That being said, I feel like Dr. Davis is very smart. When he speaks with me, I feel like he really knows my chart, etc. I just wasn't very pleased with the nurses or the retrieval process (Davis did not do it). I am also very thankful to Dr. Davis for giving me back most of my money. I know he did not have to do that.

    I am considering egg donor also but now I'm kind of worried about the DNA fragmentation. This is why I am considering having my husband take this test.
  14.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Take the test to put your mind at ease. Who know if he has the issue, they maybe able to treat him or the other thing that was mentioned. You may even get pregnant with your one eggs after that. You are only 36. Are you taking any supplements?

    Good luck. Hubby is scheduled for aug 15th then we see our re 2 weeks after that. Will let you know what happens.

    Alicia
  15.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    Looks like these help improve fragmentation. I am going to wait until after we do the test before he starts taking these. I also read that if fragmentation is below 30 percent, if dh ejaculates everyday (8-12 days) and then reserves for 2 days the quality is better and there is a higher chance for success. Even saw a case where someone got pregnant naturally.

    Alicia
  16.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

  17.  
    houston

    houston New Member

    Thanks for posting! Very interesting.
  18.  
    sunrisec

    sunrisec New Member

    My husband has been a vegetarian for over 20 years. Do you think not getting enough protein may have affected his DNA fragmentation? Also read that cell phones can also impact. Will tell dh to put his cell phone in his back pocket. He Aldo cycles a lot. Bike riding is probably not great or thus process.

    Dawn
  19.  
    sharrison18

    sharrison18 New Member

    I know this is an older post...what was your DH DFI from the test?...my DH has super high DFI...100% or inconclusive, basically they just did not know what to make of it as it was so rare. But said they assumed 100%. I don't want to get all technical on this but its not 100% conclusive as far as if you can have a successful pregnancy with very high DFI. There are cases out there but just not as many. Its still a new science.

    People have mentioned the treatments including lots of ejaculate, surgically removing sperm from the source called (TESE or TESA or MESA), and antioxidant vitamins. Also reducing testicle temperture (ie laptops, long car rides, spas etc), no chemical exposures, no smoking, drinking etc etc. Long story short I dont know if any of this really help as we have not actually retested after any significant treatment of the above. There are studies to support the first three mentioned. We had 3 tests done in the course of about 3 months all with same devastating results. We are doing half donor and half DH and I will do my first FET in Jan...DH transfers first.

    TO note in your case is this....the egg is the driver from fertilization through day 3 and then the sperm starts to drive for a while until finally they are working hand in hand. So we people have alot of arrest day 4 to 5 after looking great through day 3...they often say this was because of "bad" sperm. Just to note...that is why we always try to culture to blasts..last time we stopped and froze DH embies on day 3 as there were only 2. Lab recommended we stop since statically (even with good sperm) we would end up with 0 on day 5 with only having 2 on day 3. Well I wich you all the best!! I hope to be a success showing extremely high DFI can give a full term pregnancy...we shall see. If not its a donor transfer to me! Shawna

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